Harry Potter

We're up extra late this evening, as Sasha is about ten pages from finishing Harry Potter. So I feel no compunctions about making this into a HP discussion post, complete with spoilers. Say what you will in the comments, as we've both read the book. It goes without saying that the comments contain HARRY POTTER SPOILERS, so don't read them if you haven't read the book!

Shelby commented:
I have to say, my biggest peeve of the book was that both Tonks and Lupin died. Here Rowling spends thousands of pages talking about how awful it is to be an orphan, yet little Teddy Lupin is orphaned without a second thought. And it's not like they died in a spectacular way, either. It was like, "Fred Fred Fred Fred oh Tonks and Lupin both died Fred Fred Fred." I mean sorry--if I were a mother with a couple-month-old infant, I would rather be husbandless than leave my child an orphan. If you're going to die defending and making a better world for your child, you might as well die with a bang, like James and Lily. The Lupin death was just irritating.
on Wed Aug 1 03:58:24 2007

Anonymous commented:
(Mike Kobylarz): I thought the same thing about Lupin and Tonks. Really, almost all of the deaths in the book just seemed to be because people obviously had to die and so let's just kill them off. It did seem like Lupin and Tonks were an afterthought, like Rowling wrote it, read it and was like "Hmmm...not too many people close to Harry died in this huge battle, so what can I do to add that in there without a lot of re-writing of the story?" Even the timing of Snape dying, before Voldemort found out he was not loyal, was kind of like "eh" but I did like how Snape's memories were the ones that tied up most of the loose ends. My only other complaint was the epilogue. I would have rather seen the "Potter" family story condensed into a couple of paragraphs and then had more info about some of the other characters other than Longbottom. But, though I'm being critical, I did like the book. I thought it was a cool way to wrap up the series. Much better than the Sopranos writers who would have just ended it by
on Wed Aug 1 14:05:35 2007

holly commented:
Did you see JK Rowling on Dateline the other night? Wen asked about the epilogue, she said that Harry and Ron had revolutionized the Auror office and Hermione was in charge of the department for the regulation and control of magical creatures. Bucky and I were watching and he kept yelling at the TV - "WHERE did you write that". Apparently you just have to read her mind to find out the rest of the story. She also said she thought it was poetic to end the story with another orphan who was surrounded by his 'family' as a contrast to Harry, who kept having his 'family' killed.
on Wed Aug 1 17:04:12 2007

David commented:
To be fair, one hopes (and with this book, one is never sure) that the author has thought the characters out more than is actually put on the page, so if she decided they did all that before reaching the epilogue, fine by me. Better than having her write another 1600 pages to get there....

So, does anyone know how Neville got the sword? I must've missed that.

Overall, I found the book to be very reminiscent of Harry's last big adventure - something of a slog, with a whole lot of wandering in the woods in the middle. There were a few bits I liked, liked Dudley's redemption. But, for example, I thought Ron as an adult was something of an ass. And the duel with Voldemort I found quite... contrived, though I was happier having him finally seem like he knew what he was doing. Sasha indicated she thought the last battle read like she'd already planned the film. Any thoughts on this?

on Thu Aug 2 08:04:23 2007

Shelby commented:
I believe Neville got the sword because way back in Chamber of Secrets when Harry slays the Basilisk, the sword comes out of nowhere and Dumbledore tells him that help is available for any Gryffindor who asks for it (and also help is available at Hogwarts in general for anyone who asks for it--but there's one specific to Gryffindor too). This is repeated in Hallows as well. I would have liked a little more explanation on that one too, since they made such a big deal about the sword being lost. Neville could have said something like, "Gee, I could really use a sword right now." And along the lines of Neville, I really wanted to see him kill Bellatrix and truly avenge his parents, and was pretty upset about Mrs. Weasley's wild-woman attack because it seemed lame.
on Thu Aug 2 13:00:37 2007

sasha commented:
I'm going to try not to get carried away here, because I have a lot to say about this book (and about J.K. Rowling's writing ability in general). But, just to address a few points. I think all the comments here are really getting to the heart of what's wrong with the book, which is that she gives us so many interesting story lines that she doesn't develop, and spends so much time on the less interesting story lines that she beats into our heads for 300 pages in the woods. And did anyone notice that half the time she forgets that their tent is not really a tent?? But that's a sidetrack.

She had a really interesting possible narrative arc when she started talking about the magical creatures and how they have different kinds of magic that humans don't respect or understand. Wouldn't it have been interesting if she could have made that into a more central part of her story, rather than tacking it on in a haphazard fashion? Also, I thought it was very clear that she was setting up Lupin and Tonks' baby as the next-generation Harry (she even has Harry contemplate himself in the role of Sirius), but she only gives us tiny glimpses of that (and, as you so rightly point out, Mike, their deaths are passed over quickly).

I also wish she could make her characters capable of learning things. I always knew that Snape wasn't "really" bad. After all, we'd already seen that James Potter was a bully a la Draco Malfoy when he was in school, and that Snape was his Harry Potter (or possibly his Neville - Harry usually managed to give as good as he got). But everyone managed to conveniently forget these lessons (until we had to learn them again from Snape's more fleshed-out memories). Harry just appears ultimately incapable of changing his mind about other people. Snape = bad. Dumbledore = good. And when he does decide Dumbledore might be human and therefore flawed (don't kids work this out before they turn 17?), then Dumbledore = evil bad liar who never told me anything. And then, when he knows Dumbledore is flawed, but not as flawed as he had originally feared (but much more so, by the way, than poor Snape!), he still refuses to admit it, despite the fact that Dumbledore (or Dumbledore's spirit or whatever) is sitting there telling him. Okay, enough. Sorry for the rant.

on Thu Aug 2 17:15:08 2007

Derek (Erb) commented:
Sasha's comments, excellently presented though they are (as usual), prove the point that adults should not read Harry Potter. Or if they do so they should not use their adult brains to analyse the content. Harry Potter is a series of books written for children. The concepts and rules are therefore extremely simplistic. The Good guys are nothing but Good and the Bad guys are nothing but bad. The good guys should almost be wearing white suits and the bad guys wearing black hats. Narnia, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Potter, Sally Lockhart, the Dark Materials and so many other CHILDRENS' books series have these same traits. There are very few grey, subtle or "fuzzy" ideas as to who is who and who should "win" in the end. Star Wars were the American westerns taken to space. Potter takes the same concepts and brings them to 20th century England and throws in some magic. Like so many series' authors before her Rowling's goal was to get kids to read. In actual fact her individual goal was probably to get kids to read HER books and LOTS of them. She succeeded in this goal better than any series' author before her. I've been following my children's evolution along with their friends as well as my nephews and nieces. Rowling got kids reading and talking about books in the same way that they had been talking about only movies and TV series episodes for over a decade. That worked! She has written for children and the books do not hold up to adult analysis. Personally I have felt that ever since they made and released the first movie the overall tone and events of the books have changed. For the last 3 books I certainly could see her contemplating how this chapter would be filmed more so than how it would be imagined in the head of the reader. I would have preferred that they started making the movies _after_ the last book. But obviously one should never underestimate the sheer power of Hollywood. It's always easy to criticise authors... especially when one doesn't write entire books one's self... but above all... I'm gonna miss Harry and his Hogwart cohorts...
on Fri Aug 3 04:26:11 2007

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